KK asks for more writing from OTOC, unleashing another in depth discussion... ;)
OTOC:
Well, it's not specifically about how much time I have left. Time is always short, it flows away like the warm breath on the back of your neck.
It escapes the attention so easily and without knowing it, it is gone.
For you see tha passage of time is individually based, from what I gather it is based on the specifics of how much a person remembers and not the notion that it is a constant, for you see even the exact present moment you are percieving at any given time is based in memory, the impulses take time to get from eyes/ears etc to the processing part of your brain, then time to the registration part of your brain.
So at any given moment the present is being converted into an electrical signal which is an imprint of that moment past, a memory of it yet to be seen.
And then the next moment along, unless the first is placed into direct short term memory to be processed into long term, awareness of that moment just passed is zero and time passage is unregisterable and instant.
Like I say, time is short, time is longer for those that remember much more, but still in the grand picture.. short.
It is going very well, nothing to complain about.
All the best with luck as well to you too.
**********************
kalamity koolWrote:
Immortality in writing is something I have never agreed with.
A mortal extension of time that a string of thoughts put into words may survive, long past your on existence but in the end everything will come to nothing.
For me, I find that writing is a way to release those thoughts.
I nearly died, I thought I was going to my death, but I came back from that, I'm nothing special, no different to any other person, no different to any other mind, know that the mind is very weak, we aren't intelligent, we are all so young and unknowing and that we will all die and everything we have ever thought or done will be lost and forgotten.
In life there is nothing to regret because nothing means anything, nothing has a lasting meaning, slaving away day by day just to survive, just so we can continue this, depression flowing through the entire population.
Our lives are so short, so much we don't know, so much we will never know, there is no higher power guiding us, no great entity controlling everything, our lives and the entire universe is in a state of chaos and in our short lives we seek to control that chaos. Fighting against the natural flow, trying to control it.
I say to you to flow with the chaos that is life, let your thoughts drift away from you and stop trying so hard to fight against the stream, let your mind do what it wants and think whatever it wants.
One could say that there are so many better things we could spend our time doing, but the truth is that it doesn't matter, the civility of our lives is just an illusion and we are guided by that illusion, humans influencing other humans, all we do is learn the same things our forefathers taught their children.
The universe is so old compared to us, imagine a race that has been around for 400 billion years, what would they think and do.
Everything on this world is so petty and small and it is just inflated by people sense of self-worth, accept it and work with it, because it doesn't matter what you write as long as writing makes you happier.
**************************
kalamity koolWrote:
Your written words lasting for time immemorial. Beyond the farthest reaches of human memory your words will last, long after all that you are is lost a mark you left will remain guiding and teaching the human race...
Your words lasting ever more underlined by the hope that in time the human race will find a way to continue on indefinitely and let part of you be immortalised throughout all time across this universe and the next.
Through the chaotic storm of time and life you have faith that a string of words can be so strong to never break apart, trusting in people that have yet to come to pass.
I understand the viewpoint, I understand that through all the experienced hardships of life that you cannot come to think that everything that anyone could do will not last until the very end enriching and making better all who come across the works born from difficulty and hardship.
Faith, Faith in humanity.
****************************
kalamity koolWrote:
I mostly agree, except..
Everything passes, absolute.
There is no value to making a noise.
From nothing we come until nothing we return, transmuting but never changing the value of any part of the universe.
Only based in perception does anything have a value, But what is perception but a reality built upon by generations of words, assigning meaning to the meaningless and order to the chaos so that we can judge ourselves in a context that allows us to believe that there is value.
A collective endevour to produce a thought that decieves the mind and glorifies the soul, to make us think we have control over the uncontrollable.
The truth is simple, perceptual reality built upon by words allowing the thought that thought itself can break the bounds that constrain the idea.
Belief, do you believe that adding the collective thought that has come before you will aid minds in the future to continue the line of thought until the great conclusion, The enlightenment of the species, the moment that will stand above all else in the future of history.
Belief, do you believe that that is worth something?
I don't, I cannot, to me whatever happens or whatever becomes of any input of mine does not change the end value and as such cannot be seen as a worthwhile endeavour.
Whatever happens to any person, or the entire species does not have any value, does not mean anything, we will all die in the end and take everything with us.
*******************************
kalamity koolWrote:
Read this yesterday, forgot to reply
This conversation could go on for a while in different forms fluttering around the same points.
Let me say this, Past, Present, Future, all that has been, all that is and all that is yet to come is all leading in the same direction.
Yes, the evolution of the human mind and thoughts patterns has lead us to this point, to this conversation, But all paths lead to the same conclusion, this conversation may change both our lives in many ways, your writings could reach the minds of many and influence them to produce yet even more things of beauty.
But in the end, everything dies, and that does not just mean life. Anything that life has created will in the end no longer exist...
And not in the sense that "Ah, if there is no life to percieve that which life has created then is there any purpose to that which life created?" Much like the "If a tree falls in the woods and there is no-one to hear it, does it make a sound" to which the answer is no, the tree falling creates vibrations in the air, but it is the ear and the mind which convert, I say again, Convert, the vibration to sound, so if there is nothing there to convert the vibration to sound, then it does not make a sound.
More in the sense that anything life creates will decay and break apart, burn up and eventually be completely eradicated with no trace.
Depends how you look at things though, On the small scale and with love in the heart and morality in the soul you can see the human race moving on, learning, loving, caring, creating, each action leading to another, each thought permeating the global mindspace and making our lives better, leaving things behind for people not born to enjoy and to learn from, pushing the human race further and further.
Watching how the species can survive and spread throughout the universe, growing ever more in numbers and in art but always based upon the thoughts and creations of those before them, part of the long dead continually spreading throughout the universe and still bringing emotion, comfort, or thought to the population of the universe.
Ever growing, ever getting larger and larger, and it appears an impossibility that all that can be done by all the populations of the universe could ever be removed..
10 billion years, 40 billion years, 800 billion years, time ever ticking onwards, the human race, so varied, so different, so wise now, so vast in numbers, but even then a glimmer from the past, out of all the passing people in all the cities of all the worlds, you catch a glimpse of what passes for a book "The Complete Works of Wilam Shaksphear" You question the name but realise that over 800 billion years that things can be lost, it still survived though throughout all that time, through all the universe, parts of the ancient past still survive, still influences people.
And you wonder what else could you find from the past, and you think if a book from one world, from a population so small can survive so long, how long could any of the works from a hundred trillion worlds survive in some form.
Time marches on and on and on, So long that the years aren't worth mentioning and yet 'humanity' continues to grow and grow..
Onwards further and faster, the stars begin to die but 'humanity' create their own, The black holes threaten every world, but 'humanity' fights them off...
Stars around the universe begin to explode, galaxies die, great gas nebulas fill every corner of the sky, man made stars and inhabited planets the only light source in the universe..
But yet it continues onwards through time, the great gas nebulas used to form new man made stars, but the energy is low, resources around the universe are growing thin, everywhere is beginning to get cold.
The stars die out, there is no fuel anywhere to keep them burning and many worlds of many peoples are dying now, small pockets of 'humans' burning what they can find to stay warm, but the universe has gone dark now, the black holes have destroyed almost everything and the final day comes for humanity, The last fires go out and the cold wins.
But time continues to march onwards, most of 'humanities' creations were burnt or eaten by black holes, small signs survive, but all too soon they begin to break apart, the atoms that make up 'humanities' creations cool off, radiating their small amount of energy out into the vast emptiness, the creations turn to dust and then to atoms and then to protons, neutrons and elections, no imprint of what they once were..
And the universe is dark, silent and cold, not a single thought stirring the vast emptiness.
Everything ends my dear, it doesn't matter when, everything ends and nothing remains, the value of the universe never altered.
All those people that passed through that time, each one growing and learning, but in the end dying and when the end of the line is reached nothing of all those lives remain.
But of course, far be it from me to say that you shouldn't feel as though you are not helping(etc) the future of people, because you have the ability to reach so many minds, you have the ability to change what is yet to come, to steer humanity in a better direction, to make better people's lives.
And to you, that has value.
*******************************
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-The-Value-of-Your-Life
KK:
In the realm of infinity,
exploding stars
matter little...
the march of time turns round and round
carrying little
gems from the past
small as the God particle,
as vast as space.
OTOC:
Well, it's not specifically about how much time I have left. Time is always short, it flows away like the warm breath on the back of your neck.
It escapes the attention so easily and without knowing it, it is gone.
For you see tha passage of time is individually based, from what I gather it is based on the specifics of how much a person remembers and not the notion that it is a constant, for you see even the exact present moment you are percieving at any given time is based in memory, the impulses take time to get from eyes/ears etc to the processing part of your brain, then time to the registration part of your brain.
So at any given moment the present is being converted into an electrical signal which is an imprint of that moment past, a memory of it yet to be seen.
And then the next moment along, unless the first is placed into direct short term memory to be processed into long term, awareness of that moment just passed is zero and time passage is unregisterable and instant.
Like I say, time is short, time is longer for those that remember much more, but still in the grand picture.. short.
It is going very well, nothing to complain about.
All the best with luck as well to you too.
**********************
kalamity koolWrote:
I was thinking about it in a general way, as well as specifically, and your explanation rocks.
It has scared me in the past, all this life unremembered and sunk into oblivion,
but I know I can't remember more, or even want to, all that clutter in the mind, about what I had for dinner for example.
Maybe that is why I write, an attempt at immortality..in the face of short time.
Immortality in writing is something I have never agreed with.
A mortal extension of time that a string of thoughts put into words may survive, long past your on existence but in the end everything will come to nothing.
For me, I find that writing is a way to release those thoughts.
I nearly died, I thought I was going to my death, but I came back from that, I'm nothing special, no different to any other person, no different to any other mind, know that the mind is very weak, we aren't intelligent, we are all so young and unknowing and that we will all die and everything we have ever thought or done will be lost and forgotten.
In life there is nothing to regret because nothing means anything, nothing has a lasting meaning, slaving away day by day just to survive, just so we can continue this, depression flowing through the entire population.
Our lives are so short, so much we don't know, so much we will never know, there is no higher power guiding us, no great entity controlling everything, our lives and the entire universe is in a state of chaos and in our short lives we seek to control that chaos. Fighting against the natural flow, trying to control it.
I say to you to flow with the chaos that is life, let your thoughts drift away from you and stop trying so hard to fight against the stream, let your mind do what it wants and think whatever it wants.
One could say that there are so many better things we could spend our time doing, but the truth is that it doesn't matter, the civility of our lives is just an illusion and we are guided by that illusion, humans influencing other humans, all we do is learn the same things our forefathers taught their children.
The universe is so old compared to us, imagine a race that has been around for 400 billion years, what would they think and do.
Everything on this world is so petty and small and it is just inflated by people sense of self-worth, accept it and work with it, because it doesn't matter what you write as long as writing makes you happier.
**************************
kalamity koolWrote:
Writing is a kind of therapy, I agree, but I can't agree that it is only that..
Sure, the print, or the computer screen will pass away, but the words won't, for as long as we have humans on the planet, and that is long enough for me..
may not be 'immortal' in the true sense of the word, but it's damn close!
You write incerdibly well, and I'd love to see something more from you,
speaking as editor, and I'm curious to see what you might come up with..
what better way to spend the time we have left, anyway?
Your written words lasting for time immemorial. Beyond the farthest reaches of human memory your words will last, long after all that you are is lost a mark you left will remain guiding and teaching the human race...
Your words lasting ever more underlined by the hope that in time the human race will find a way to continue on indefinitely and let part of you be immortalised throughout all time across this universe and the next.
Through the chaotic storm of time and life you have faith that a string of words can be so strong to never break apart, trusting in people that have yet to come to pass.
I understand the viewpoint, I understand that through all the experienced hardships of life that you cannot come to think that everything that anyone could do will not last until the very end enriching and making better all who come across the works born from difficulty and hardship.
Faith, Faith in humanity.
****************************
kalamity koolWrote:
You may have caught me there, a visionary romantic does lurk inside me,
but by my Finnish birth, I am always a pragmatist, too.
The thing about art, (including internet writing of course! lol)
is that it can carry messages to the future, as well as reflect what it sees, it can even carry the imprint of the artist, like a flag for individual liberty, but
it stands alone, separate from the artist, independent of his intentions for the enrichment of the humanity, no matter how altruistic or revolutionary, once the artifact has been shared (published) it leaves the originator and commences its path through time.
Words build socities, and civilisations, and science.. both your thinking and mine, are built from what has been said before, so it is a collective endeavour as much as a testament to the spark of individual creativity, that can maketh a genius..
I don't know what the future people will make of my words, if they do read them, but they do contain an attempt to capture the truth, to communicate what its like, living here at this time, as I do.
I know you understand this, OTOC, by your sig..despite your insistence on sticking to meaninglessness, just because everything passes (but do words with their ideas?) doesn't mean its not worthwhile to make a noise while you can!
I mostly agree, except..
Everything passes, absolute.
There is no value to making a noise.
From nothing we come until nothing we return, transmuting but never changing the value of any part of the universe.
Only based in perception does anything have a value, But what is perception but a reality built upon by generations of words, assigning meaning to the meaningless and order to the chaos so that we can judge ourselves in a context that allows us to believe that there is value.
A collective endevour to produce a thought that decieves the mind and glorifies the soul, to make us think we have control over the uncontrollable.
The truth is simple, perceptual reality built upon by words allowing the thought that thought itself can break the bounds that constrain the idea.
Belief, do you believe that adding the collective thought that has come before you will aid minds in the future to continue the line of thought until the great conclusion, The enlightenment of the species, the moment that will stand above all else in the future of history.
Belief, do you believe that that is worth something?
I don't, I cannot, to me whatever happens or whatever becomes of any input of mine does not change the end value and as such cannot be seen as a worthwhile endeavour.
Whatever happens to any person, or the entire species does not have any value, does not mean anything, we will all die in the end and take everything with us.
*******************************
kalamity koolWrote:
OTOC, I know you see these matters clearer than I can, atm, because you have been staring death in the face.
So, ideas and lines of thought that move on through centuries, may seem like so much fairy-floss,
especially as it is true that death will extinguish the individual spark that contributed to the whole.
But even for us to be talking as we are, proves not everything has passed away, or do you think we could have had this conversation in the cave?
A rudimentary version, maybe, limited to anyone in hearing range, and certainly not recorded, much less published on the www.
The cave conversation would have been shaped by the perception of the cave man, by his reality, and of course ours is, too - except we are thousands of years ahead, and our perception is not only shaped by our immediate reality, but by the thinking we've done, the learning we've received from the minds of those before.
So, I do believe valuable ideas echo on, in the minds of men, and that individual deaths don't stop it.
Towards a great enlightenment?
A better, fair and just world?
A belief in that is a blind leap of faith, and all signs are discouraging, at present.
I honestly don't know, how it will pan out..
I think God has options, to bring about His plans, and if we pike out, he will surely move on to Plan B, lol.
Whatever you say, or write, doesn't change the end value, which is your death, but you really can't say it won't change the outcome of a whole civilization
into all the order of relentless death, march forth you random specks of chaos!
Read this yesterday, forgot to reply
This conversation could go on for a while in different forms fluttering around the same points.
Let me say this, Past, Present, Future, all that has been, all that is and all that is yet to come is all leading in the same direction.
Yes, the evolution of the human mind and thoughts patterns has lead us to this point, to this conversation, But all paths lead to the same conclusion, this conversation may change both our lives in many ways, your writings could reach the minds of many and influence them to produce yet even more things of beauty.
But in the end, everything dies, and that does not just mean life. Anything that life has created will in the end no longer exist...
And not in the sense that "Ah, if there is no life to percieve that which life has created then is there any purpose to that which life created?" Much like the "If a tree falls in the woods and there is no-one to hear it, does it make a sound" to which the answer is no, the tree falling creates vibrations in the air, but it is the ear and the mind which convert, I say again, Convert, the vibration to sound, so if there is nothing there to convert the vibration to sound, then it does not make a sound.
More in the sense that anything life creates will decay and break apart, burn up and eventually be completely eradicated with no trace.
Depends how you look at things though, On the small scale and with love in the heart and morality in the soul you can see the human race moving on, learning, loving, caring, creating, each action leading to another, each thought permeating the global mindspace and making our lives better, leaving things behind for people not born to enjoy and to learn from, pushing the human race further and further.
Watching how the species can survive and spread throughout the universe, growing ever more in numbers and in art but always based upon the thoughts and creations of those before them, part of the long dead continually spreading throughout the universe and still bringing emotion, comfort, or thought to the population of the universe.
Ever growing, ever getting larger and larger, and it appears an impossibility that all that can be done by all the populations of the universe could ever be removed..
10 billion years, 40 billion years, 800 billion years, time ever ticking onwards, the human race, so varied, so different, so wise now, so vast in numbers, but even then a glimmer from the past, out of all the passing people in all the cities of all the worlds, you catch a glimpse of what passes for a book "The Complete Works of Wilam Shaksphear" You question the name but realise that over 800 billion years that things can be lost, it still survived though throughout all that time, through all the universe, parts of the ancient past still survive, still influences people.
And you wonder what else could you find from the past, and you think if a book from one world, from a population so small can survive so long, how long could any of the works from a hundred trillion worlds survive in some form.
Time marches on and on and on, So long that the years aren't worth mentioning and yet 'humanity' continues to grow and grow..
Onwards further and faster, the stars begin to die but 'humanity' create their own, The black holes threaten every world, but 'humanity' fights them off...
Stars around the universe begin to explode, galaxies die, great gas nebulas fill every corner of the sky, man made stars and inhabited planets the only light source in the universe..
But yet it continues onwards through time, the great gas nebulas used to form new man made stars, but the energy is low, resources around the universe are growing thin, everywhere is beginning to get cold.
The stars die out, there is no fuel anywhere to keep them burning and many worlds of many peoples are dying now, small pockets of 'humans' burning what they can find to stay warm, but the universe has gone dark now, the black holes have destroyed almost everything and the final day comes for humanity, The last fires go out and the cold wins.
But time continues to march onwards, most of 'humanities' creations were burnt or eaten by black holes, small signs survive, but all too soon they begin to break apart, the atoms that make up 'humanities' creations cool off, radiating their small amount of energy out into the vast emptiness, the creations turn to dust and then to atoms and then to protons, neutrons and elections, no imprint of what they once were..
And the universe is dark, silent and cold, not a single thought stirring the vast emptiness.
Everything ends my dear, it doesn't matter when, everything ends and nothing remains, the value of the universe never altered.
All those people that passed through that time, each one growing and learning, but in the end dying and when the end of the line is reached nothing of all those lives remain.
But of course, far be it from me to say that you shouldn't feel as though you are not helping(etc) the future of people, because you have the ability to reach so many minds, you have the ability to change what is yet to come, to steer humanity in a better direction, to make better people's lives.
And to you, that has value.
*******************************
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-The-Value-of-Your-Life
KK:
In the realm of infinity,
exploding stars
matter little...
the march of time turns round and round
carrying little
gems from the past
small as the God particle,
as vast as space.
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